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Posted 21 February 2011 - 11:59 AM (#1) User is offline   Plado 

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I've had some good answers on this section already regarding the PIN code for my META M357T Immobiliser/Alarm and I now find I have a need to fit a new Hooter to my Yamaha TDM 850 but I'm scared to disconnect the main Battery for fear of it sending the immobiliser or alarm into "warp factor mode"!

It's bound to be safer to disconnect main battery, when connecting up new wiring and relay to a horn, but what happens when I reconnect the battery? - does the immobiliser go back into the same mode it was in (immobiliser armed but not alarm-armed)? Or does it stop working altogether making me have to re-program it with the PIN code and bring it out of some kind of sleep mode?

It's a shame the Immobiliser hasn't got a disarm for maintenance setting, so that I can charge the battery and not end up blowing Immobiliser fuses. I have no idea where the fuse is for the immobiliser so you see I could be stuck badly.
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Posted 21 February 2011 - 01:25 PM (#2) User is offline   Fast Eddie 

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It'll be fine. I've disconnected the battery on my bike (with datatool alarm) a few times. At worst the alarm will go off. just cancel it with the key fob.

You should still be able to charge the battery with it connected. I've an optimate on mine and it's fine.
Ed

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 07:54 PM (#3) User is offline   east_diver 

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You've got me a bit worried now Plado. I've got what I think is the same alarm system on the Pan I just got. The printed barcode label on the red card seems the same as yours. The instructions gleaned from Rerb's link says about a 5 figure code. There is a small metal tab attached to the card about 5mm x 20mm but this has 8 digits. I'll be watching this thread with interest. Have you got any further info?
Paul
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Posted 21 February 2011 - 09:52 PM (#4) User is offline   east_diver 

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I've done a bit of digging. The figures in your other post that have the asterisks is the number of fobs registered to the system to which the 16 digit hexadecimal figure on the barcode refer. There should be a sticker above this barcode which is the 5 digit reset code. You and me are in the same boat. If our systems go tits up we are stuffed. I'm going to make some calls tomorrow and I'll report back.
Paul
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Posted 22 February 2011 - 10:46 AM (#5) User is offline   east_diver 

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After a bit more digging and speaking to a very helpful geezer called Basil, I am of the opinion that mine and Plado's alarms are the M351 type of which there is no overide code hence why we can't find them on our red cards. Basil reckons that if the alarm is working ok then fair enough but if both fobs go faulty then the alarm is worthless and will require removal to get the bike to work.
Paul
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Posted 22 February 2011 - 01:19 PM (#6) User is offline   Plado 

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Thanks muchly for the groundwork you've done on this.
I only just caught this addition to the topic this morning having spent all morning mucking about with my TDM 850 trying to find the Battery Terminals and also fitting some Iridium Spark Plugs.
All is well so far.
Now about this red card thingy. My bike which I just bought from FastTrack Motorcycles of Leicester is in superb condition but the machine arrived with 2 Key fobs, both of which work for disarming the immobiliser so I can start the bike and ride off.

One of the code cards has a little blue remote attached to it which does nothing. It has two buttons on it, 1 small and 1 larger. They both do nothing.

The Code card attached to this fob trigger has COMPANY CODE and then a 5 figure number which is the PIN presumably I use that for bringing the immobiliser/alarm out of sleep mode if it's been standing un-used for 10 days. Below a bar code is the 16 digit number which I can't claim I understand what it's all about. Letters and numbers mixed up together.
Then below that the bit you mentioned which has *1 and *2 stating that 2 cards are associated with this bike. I'm not sure why or where that leaves me or what it has two for ?

The second red card has a different 16 digit cvode under the bar code and a different 5 figure pin number on the Company Code.
So I have no clue which of the two PIN nos I would use if I needed to, but this doesn't matter, as I could try them both and one of them hopefully will work.

I have to say I really hate this reliance on chip technology as it amounts really to Corporate blackmail because if anything fails we are totally stuffed. The days of being able to put a chunk of tyre rubber into the distributor when a points-spring breaks leaving you stranded are long gone I'm sorry to say. Now you have the situation that I did last Christmas when I wanted to have a service and fork seals done on my previous machine a BMW C1 scooter.
Labour rates at the main dealer being over 90 quid an hour gave me a wonderful bill of 600 for that job that technology locked me out of DIY.

Anyhow maybe you can throw a bit more light on this PIN code security thing as I'm totally flummoxed on it.



I've never tried the alarm itself as I don't need it. Lucky me!
The immobiliser sets itself 50 seconds after switching off the ignition. So I'm not really draining the battery within the immobiliser from that light amount of use.
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Posted 22 February 2011 - 07:56 PM (#7) User is offline   johnny_b 

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Will I get slammed if I suggest you contact the manufacturer of the alarm or even the bike?They should know.
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Posted 22 February 2011 - 09:13 PM (#8) User is offline   snodvan 

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Plado said:

Thanks muchly for the groundwork you've done on this.
I only just caught this addition to the topic this morning having spent all morning mucking about with my TDM 850 trying to find the Battery Terminals and also fitting some Iridium Spark Plugs.
All is well so far.
Now about this red card thingy. My bike which I just bought from FastTrack Motorcycles of Leicester is in superb condition but the machine arrived with 2 Key fobs, both of which work for disarming the immobiliser so I can start the bike and ride off.

One of the code cards has a little blue remote attached to it which does nothing. It has two buttons on it, 1 small and 1 larger. They both do nothing.

The Code card attached to this fob trigger has COMPANY CODE and then a 5 figure number which is the PIN presumably I use that for bringing the immobiliser/alarm out of sleep mode if it's been standing un-used for 10 days. Below a bar code is the 16 digit number which I can't claim I understand what it's all about. Letters and numbers mixed up together.
Then below that the bit you mentioned which has *1 and *2 stating that 2 cards are associated with this bike. I'm not sure why or where that leaves me or what it has two for ?

The second red card has a different 16 digit cvode under the bar code and a different 5 figure pin number on the Company Code.
So I have no clue which of the two PIN nos I would use if I needed to, but this doesn't matter, as I could try them both and one of them hopefully will work.

I have to say I really hate this reliance on chip technology as it amounts really to Corporate blackmail because if anything fails we are totally stuffed. The days of being able to put a chunk of tyre rubber into the distributor when a points-spring breaks leaving you stranded are long gone I'm sorry to say. Now you have the situation that I did last Christmas when I wanted to have a service and fork seals done on my previous machine a BMW C1 scooter.
Labour rates at the main dealer being over 90 quid an hour gave me a wonderful bill of 600 for that job that technology locked me out of DIY.

Anyhow maybe you can throw a bit more light on this PIN code security thing as I'm totally flummoxed on it.



I've never tried the alarm itself as I don't need it. Lucky me!
The immobiliser sets itself 50 seconds after switching off the ignition. So I'm not really draining the battery within the immobiliser from that light amount of use.


I think I would buy a couple of good chains and locks!

The setup you folk have makes the Datatool 2 system I have seem simple - while in reality it can be a bit of a pain in the arse - - mainly from the current drain

Snod
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Posted 25 February 2011 - 10:11 PM (#9) User is offline   Plado 

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That isn't a bad suggestion. Only trouble is I've already done that and they can only help to the point of telling me that the 5 figure code called Company Code is the one that I should use.
I asked the dealer in Leicester why the two cards with different codes and they said it puzzled them too !
They suggested looking on the actual immobilizer alarm unit fitted to the bike and see what the 16 digit code printed on the side of the actual casing of the unit shows. It should, he said coincide with the red keycode card with the correct number so I'll know which is the active one. Well I got out there with a magnifying glass, a strong torch and a mirror and noted the number down and it's nothing like either of the numbers on the red cards.

I expect the only way to find out is to see if I can disarm the immobilizer using the ridiculous ignition key fiddling and counting flashes of the monitor light system.
It really is a daft idea and offers no security at all. The insurers wouldn't give me a discount for fitted immobilizer because I hadn't got the original certificate proving it was fitted by a qualified agent. So sod them !

The makers of the alarm can't even give me the name of a local dealer who would remove it for me. The only dealer they advised me of works only on cars and not motorcycles. So as the fellah says "up theirs"!

i want rid of this immobilizer and I have no idea how to do it without it costing big money - it's a millstone around my neck.
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Posted 26 February 2011 - 07:37 AM (#10) User is offline   jamiesk 

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Plado said:

i want rid of this immobilizer and I have no idea how to do it without it costing big money - it's a millstone around my neck.


If you trace the wires from the immobiliser then they should splice into the wiring loom in at several places. Some just supply power or flash the lights. There will be two leads which go into one exisitng wire which is cut. These need to be joined back up together.

It will take no money to have a look and trace it.

PM me if you want some more info.
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Posted 26 February 2011 - 10:44 AM (#11) User is offline   Baggy 

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I have a M357T alarm. I had the battery off for almost 4 months over the winter and when I put the battery back on yesterday the alarm didn't even go off and it's still working with the fob as before :D

This post has been edited by Baggy: 26 February 2011 - 11:58 AM

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 11:08 AM (#12) User is offline   B-King Mike 

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Some info here.

Meta Remote controls
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Posted 26 February 2011 - 12:59 PM (#13) User is offline   johnny_b 

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I removed the alarm from a Triumph Sprint 900 a couple of years ago. The fob packed up and it was the only way of being able to use the bike. There were no makers marks at all so I had to bite the bullet and work it out myself. In the end it was really quite simple as the alarm was spliced into the loom and where there were cut wires I was just able to reconnect them. Where the wires hadn't been cut I just cut off the alarm wires and taped up the exposed core. Only took an afternoon but I stress it was an aftermarket alarm and I had nothing to lose as I couldn't use the bike without doing it.
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Posted 27 February 2011 - 04:26 PM (#14) User is offline   Plado 

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Great Stuff JohnnyB
And thanks also to both Jamiesk and FirestormMike.
I can reply to all three in this response here.
Sorry to be gone quiet for a day or more, only I spent all of yesterday fitting and wiring-in a twin-toned air horn to my TDM-850 and it was a useful bit of work to find out how to charge the battery and how the Immobiliser and Alarm were completely unaffected by my fiddling about. I didn't disconnect the battery though. I did find out how to charge it!

I will go and look at the link given by Firestorm Mike, as it could be good information.

Also I'm a bit more confident about what to do if I decide to remove it myself thanks to both Jamiesk and JohnnyB. Both seem to say the same thing. My real problem will come when trying to trace the wires to wherever it was that they "cut-in" to the harness as the harness itself is very well hidden by Yamaha when they made the bike. I don't want to end up dismantling half the machine to get at the important bits.

For now all is working fine even with the battery showing a voltage of only 12.5v - the immobiliser hasn't gone into Sleep mode so far.
I think I'll only consider ripping the whole show out if I end up stranded somewhere having to get the Recovery people to bail me out of trouble.
But for now I can certainly gain a bit more knowledge if I go to that Alarm link so that's my next job. Thanks to all of you here for your concerned advice. Super stuff.

Cheers
Laurie
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Posted 21 January 2014 - 12:29 PM (#15) User is offline   bikealarmman 

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I'm also an independent bike alarm dealer/installer, so if anyone wants some advice on 'all things alarms' you're welcome to call me (Pete - 07877 552759). I'm too late to offer any advice to the chaps above, but for future Meta bike alarm reference -

If you are unsure of the model (i.e. you don't have the certificate of installation, owner's guide or the original invoice), there should be a yellow (very occasionally silver) sticker on the back of the main alarm/siren unit - In large writing it will show the model, M351a, M355, M357, M357T-V2 or M357T-V2>1, etc

The M351a (this unit had a separate quite large M16 movement sensor), was the first insurance approved, Sold Secure, alarm/immobiliser that sold in any serious numbers in the mid to late 90s. These were supplied with 2 circular remote controls with the little round buttons in the middle. They had a 'red card' showing the 16 digit hexadecimal serial number, required should you want to order a new/replacement remote control from the likes of me!!! There was no 5 digit Company code (or emergency override PIN as it should be called). New remote controls will only program in if you have a working one already!

The M351a was quite a reliable unit, so long as you didn't mess with the bike battery... most folks that call me with an unresponsive M351a tell me that they have "left the bike for a while and the battery had gone flat. Now it's recharged the alarm is dead!!!!" Compared to modern alarms this one has a very high current draw that will flatten most bike batteries within a few weeks... it has no 'sleep mode' so it just keeps 'drawing'!!! Keep the bike battery hooked up to a decent charger (Optimate, recent Oxford Oximiser, etc) during the winter months of no use and they do usually last.

The M357T (on the back of the unit it just says 'M357') was their first Thatcham Cat 1 approved alarm/immobiliser from about 1998, superceding the M351a. Same remotes and red card but also with the 5 digit company code. You'll need both the 16 digit hex code and the 5 digit company code should you want to order new remote controls. This system has a 'sllep mode' feature that sometimes confuses and frustrates - 10 days without use, it shuts itself down (to save the bike battery apparently, although the current draw is very low!!)... so it is dead and not responsive to the remotes until you wake it back up again by switching the bike's ignition on.

The M357T was prone to a regular issue... basically failing to respond to the remote controls!!! The LED would often still be flashing and the emergency override (company) code may still disarm the system, but its receiver would never work again! Often an indication that this had happened or might be about to happen, was a low level crackling or hissing noise from the siren. It seems that there's no way round this so it would be a removal job!

The M357T-V2 ('Version 2') replaced the M357T over ten years ago. Beefed up immobilisation was the main improvement, but I noted that it still suffered with similar issues, until (Rev1) appeared in production soon after - a slightly larger new siren front seemed to mostly cure the hissing failing receiver issue. Several new types of remotes have also been used and I now find this alarm very reliable!

The M357T-V2>1 is much as above less the immobiliser... it's fitted to bikes that already have an approved immobiliser such as the Honda HISS, Yamaha YISS and Kawasaki KISS. This alarm has been superceded by a much neater, smaller unit called the 'Def Com T'!

I have all manner of instructions that I'm happy to share should anyone need it!

Pete



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Posted 21 January 2014 - 07:15 PM (#16) User is offline   Bird 

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View Postbikealarmman, on 21 January 2014 - 12:29 PM, said:

I'm also an independent bike alarm dealer/installer, so if anyone wants some advice on 'all things alarms' you're welcome to call me (Pete - 07877 552759). I'm too late to offer any advice to the chaps above, but for future Meta bike alarm reference -

If you are unsure of the model (i.e. you don't have the certificate of installation, owner's guide or the original invoice), there should be a yellow (very occasionally silver) sticker on the back of the main alarm/siren unit - In large writing it will show the model, M351a, M355, M357, M357T-V2 or M357T-V2>1, etc

The M351a (this unit had a separate quite large M16 movement sensor), was the first insurance approved, Sold Secure, alarm/immobiliser that sold in any serious numbers in the mid to late 90s. These were supplied with 2 circular remote controls with the little round buttons in the middle. They had a 'red card' showing the 16 digit hexadecimal serial number, required should you want to order a new/replacement remote control from the likes of me!!! There was no 5 digit Company code (or emergency override PIN as it should be called). New remote controls will only program in if you have a working one already!

The M351a was quite a reliable unit, so long as you didn't mess with the bike battery... most folks that call me with an unresponsive M351a tell me that they have "left the bike for a while and the battery had gone flat. Now it's recharged the alarm is dead!!!!" Compared to modern alarms this one has a very high current draw that will flatten most bike batteries within a few weeks... it has no 'sleep mode' so it just keeps 'drawing'!!! Keep the bike battery hooked up to a decent charger (Optimate, recent Oxford Oximiser, etc) during the winter months of no use and they do usually last.

The M357T (on the back of the unit it just says 'M357') was their first Thatcham Cat 1 approved alarm/immobiliser from about 1998, superceding the M351a. Same remotes and red card but also with the 5 digit company code. You'll need both the 16 digit hex code and the 5 digit company code should you want to order new remote controls. This system has a 'sllep mode' feature that sometimes confuses and frustrates - 10 days without use, it shuts itself down (to save the bike battery apparently, although the current draw is very low!!)... so it is dead and not responsive to the remotes until you wake it back up again by switching the bike's ignition on.

The M357T was prone to a regular issue... basically failing to respond to the remote controls!!! The LED would often still be flashing and the emergency override (company) code may still disarm the system, but its receiver would never work again! Often an indication that this had happened or might be about to happen, was a low level crackling or hissing noise from the siren. It seems that there's no way round this so it would be a removal job!

The M357T-V2 ('Version 2') replaced the M357T over ten years ago. Beefed up immobilisation was the main improvement, but I noted that it still suffered with similar issues, until (Rev1) appeared in production soon after - a slightly larger new siren front seemed to mostly cure the hissing failing receiver issue. Several new types of remotes have also been used and I now find this alarm very reliable!

The M357T-V2>1 is much as above less the immobiliser... it's fitted to bikes that already have an approved immobiliser such as the Honda HISS, Yamaha YISS and Kawasaki KISS. This alarm has been superceded by a much neater, smaller unit called the 'Def Com T'!

I have all manner of instructions that I'm happy to share should anyone need it!

Pete


Crikey dude, well replied http://www.bikerforum.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/goodjob.gif
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Posted 21 January 2014 - 08:58 PM (#17) User is offline   jamiesk 

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Welcome Peter.

View PostBird, on 21 January 2014 - 07:15 PM, said:

Crikey dude, well replied http://www.bikerforum.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/default/goodjob.gif

+1

This post has been edited by jamiesk: 21 January 2014 - 08:59 PM

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